that's not looking into something. he says it happened. >> look, i think the bigger thing is you guys are always telling us to take the media seriously. well, we are today. we're taking the reports that places like "the new york times," fox news, bbc, multiple outlets have reported this. all we're saying is, let's take a closer look. let's look into this. if it happened, if this is accurate. this is the biggest overreach. the biggest scandal. >> you're not saying let's look into this. the president of the united states is accusing the former president of wiretapping him. >> i think that this is again, something that if this happened, martha. >> if, if, if, if. >> i agree. >> why is the president saying it did happen? >> look, i think he's going off of information that he has seen that has led him to believe that this is a very real potential. if it is, this is the greatest overreach in the greatest abuse of power that i think we have ever seen and a huge attack on democracy itself. and the american people have a right to know if this took place. >> okay.